Moonshine How To Tell When Run Is Done? - Información de la cerveza

Contents

1 How do you know when you’re done distilling?
- - 1.0.1 How do you know when to stop distillation?
- 1.1 How long does a distilling run take?
2 Can you run moonshine too slow?
3 How do you know when to stop the distillation?
- 3.1 How long does a distilling run take?
  - 3.1.1 How do you know when to stop distillation chemistry?
4 At what proof should I stop distilling?

How do you know when you’re done distilling?

Page 6 – Distillation is used for numerous applications, including the distillation of essential oils and spirits. Our Copper Alembics are perfectly suitable for these applications nevertheless certain should be taken to avoid personal injury as a result of negligence or the continuous consumption of poor results.

Distillation is a basic chemical science which involves the separation of a chemical substance into its different components based on difference in the boiling point of each fraction. This is done by heating a mixture in an alembic pot so the fractions that make up the mixture begin to evaporate, these are conducted via a connecting arm or swan neck into a condenser where they are chilled and revert to their liquid state.

Ethanol alcohol evaporates at 78.3ºC at sea level and water at 100ºC but a mixture of the two components will evaporate between 78.3ºC and 100ºC depending on the ratio of ethanol alcohol and water. The more volatile components or those fractions with a lower boiling point will tend to evaporate first so the resultant vapours will be more enriched with those components with a lower boiling point.

A fermented batch may be composed of ethanol, other higher alcohols such as methanol also acetone, various esters, water and furfurals.
The more volatile components such as acetone, methanol and the various esters are undesirable; methanol for instance has been known to cause blindness.
It is common practice to throw away the first portion of the distillate, this way you will get rid of the methanol.

Separate and discard the first 50ml If distilling a 25 L wash or mash in a reflux still or 100ml per 20L wash from the rest of the distillate if using a traditional alembic, these fractions are known as foreshots or heads and are distilled first. The result of any distillation is divided into three separate parts in the following order: heads, hearts and tails.

The best and desired portion of the distillation is obtained from the hearts. Cut off points have to be determined between heads, hearts and tails, the art lies in when to start collecting the hearts and when to stop. Experienced distillers use their senses to determine cut off points, they monitor the taste and smell of the heads, these usually have a very sharp taste and are foul smelling.

The hearts portion of the distillate (the ethanol) should be totally transparent and odourless. The tails contain a large amount of compounds with higher boiling points, such as the higher alcohols and furfural. These compounds can spoil the taste of the spirit if the collection is carried on too long.

The cut off point for the tails can be identified by the taste, smell and milky cloudiness of the distillate. This is done by collecting a few drops on the back of a spoon every so often and checking what it tastes or looks like on a regular basis. The tails are usually saved to include in the next batch as a considerable amount of ethanol alcohol can still be recovered.

Cut off points may also be established based on temperature (see our ) or readings. Temperature readings may not determine the cut off point with the greatest accuracy though they may be helpful in determining the end of a complete distillation run. For instance when the vapour temperature nears 98° C most of the alcohol has already been distilled and it becomes unnecessary to continue the distillation process.

The percentage at which to do the cut may depend on the flavour profile you may want to obtain and the kind of wash distilled.
As a rule for fruit mashes the cut off point for tails may be 25% alcohol and for grain washes 18%, this is not a hard and fast rule and the distiller has to toggle with these values to obtain the desired flavour profile.

Most distillates are double distilled to further purify the distillation results and raise the alcohol percentage. A second distillation may also concentrate the flavour further. The cut off point for a second distillation in a fruit mash may be as low as 60%.

How do you know when to stop distillation?

Learning how to take cuts during distillation may seem like a daunting process to begin with but by following some basic steps and getting some practice, you’ll be a pro in no time! Taking cuts refers to the process where spirit is collected in small portions of similar sizes during distillation as opposed to allowing the distillate to collect in just one large vessel.

This process gives you more control over the flavours and aromas that make it into your final product, allowing you to create something truly unique and to your taste. During fermentation, many compounds are produced along with alcohol such as acetaldehyde, esters, and ethyl acetate. By taking cuts, we can minimise how many of these by-products make it into our final spirit.

Some of these by-products appear earlier on in the distillation, and others come out later or towards the end of the distillation – this depends entirely on the compound itself. Not all these by-products are bad. Some do not taste wonderful on their own, however, it can be beneficial to introduce them in small amounts to contribute different attributes to your final spirit.

The foreshots are the first part of the distillate (usually 50-200 mL depending on what is being distilled) which are discarded as these can contain harmful compounds and off-flavours. The heads are the distillate collected immediately after the first 50-200 mL of discarded foreshots. They can contain some undesirable, but not harmful, compounds and off-flavours. Some of these are blended into your final spirit, however, most will be discarded or retained in a separate container for redistilling in future batches. The hearts are the middle part of a run and are the cleanest and most flavoursome part of the distillate. A minimal amount of undesirable compounds come through into the spirit. They make up the bulk of your final spirit. The tails are the final part of the distillation and contain some vegetal off-flavours. These are also typically discarded, however, like the heads they can also be kept in a separate container for redistilling.

The Stripping Run The stripping run is done first and ‘strips’ the wash down to a cleaner, more concentrated low wine. This distillation is usually done hot and fast, meaning temperature control isn’t as important as the aim is to strip the wash quickly.

Just be sure to take care not to run it too hot to avoid the loss of vapour from the condenser.
The purpose of a stripping run is to capture as much distillate from the wash as possible, therefore, there is no need to remove the foreshots (50-200mL) as these can be removed during the spirit run.
The Spirit Run Once you’ve completed the stripping run, it is then diluted with water to 40% ABV or lower and then distilled again – this is where cuts are taken.

During this distillation run, the flow of the still should be kept slower than on the stripping run, and ideally, the voltage going to the boiler should be controlled to ensure a nice gentle boil – the Grainfather G30 is a great example of a boiler that can double as a brewing system to make Whiskey and Bourbon washes, and then control the voltage during distillation.

How to Take Cuts During Distillation There are a few different methods to work out how to split and collect the different cuts from a spirit run, some people base it on temperature or ABV, while others evenly split the whole run and then taste and smell later. Either way can work but to simplify things, we’re going to talk through splitting the entire run.

To do this, you will need an adequate number of glass jars, preferably 300-500 mL in size, that will be able to collect the entire run – this amount will depend on how many stripping runs have been done, if it is only one, then approx.24 x 400 mL jars should suffice.

For best results, number these so you know where exactly the cut was made.
The next step is to fire up your pot still and get ready to start the process.
You will need to discard the foreshots as usual.
Depending on how many stripping runs you have done this could be anything from 50 to 200 mL.
Once the foreshots are discarded, you can start collecting the remaining distillate into the jars.

Ensure you collect the same volume into each jar (250 mL – 300 mL is usually a good figure – you can test and adjust this to suit your still later) and then set the jar aside. Depending on what you wish to do, and what you’re making, you can stop collecting the distillate once the ABV drops to 10% or below, although some stop it even higher.

You may start to notice some more visible by-products forming in the last number of jars – this could be an oily looking substance or off-colours coming through. We then suggest you let the jars air out for 24 hours for the more volatile aroma compounds to dissipate. This can be done by covering them with a thin type of material, such as muslin cloth, being careful it does not dip into the jars.

Now that you’ve taken your cuts and have allowed the jars to aerate for 24 hours, you’re ready to blend them together. To find out how to do this, check out our article How to Blend Cuts,

How long does a distilling run take?

In the first part of our series on Scottish pot stills we dealt comprehensively with their geometrical shape and their production, This article deals with operating the stills. Of course different distilleries operate their stills differently. Some heat fast and then distil slowly, others heat and distil fast. Glenfiddich – Still House The following chart shows the principal setup of a Scottish Malt Whisky distillery with two pot stills. Distilleries with three pot stills and triple distillation are extended by one step correspondingly. Many large distilleries have four, six or more pot stills, which aren’t operated in series but in parallel.

The connection of the pot stills can be even more complex, if for example the first distillate from several wash stills or from several production cycles is led into a single spirit still, A ratio of 3:2 or 4:3 of wash stills to spirit stills is also common. You can also triple distil with two pot stills by distilling the final product of the second distillation again in the emptied spirit still,

The chart shows a simple distillery with a wash still and a spirit still, Functional Chart of a Pot Still Distillery The principle of distillation was already known to the ancient Egyptians. Different evaporation points allow for the separation of substances by heating. The substances that evaporate first at low temperatures may be collected and separated from the rest.

But the Egyptians used distillation only for producing perfume.
Only in the middle ages Celtic monks discovered the production of Whisky – the water of life,
Through alcoholic fermentation the wash ( beer ) contains approximately 8% to 10% alcohol (ethanol = ethyl alcohol).
The alcoholic strength is determined by the yeast used and the duration of the fermentation,

When heating the wash, the substances with a lower boiling point than water evaporate with rising temperatures. The wash can’t be heated further than up to the evaporation point of the lowest-boiling substance. All heat energy is absorbed by the substance that changes its aggregate state (from liquid to vaporous), and the liquid can’t be heated further. Royal Lochnagar – Wash Still The wash still has a simple task: It is used for the first distillation of the wash, or in plain English: the beer, The capacity of the stills and the wash backs is usually coordinated.4000 US. Gal. (15,000 L) to 8000 US. Gal.

30,000 L) are most common.
When hot steam is led into the heating cylinders, the wash still starts to heat the wash,
Through the heat movement (convection) inside the still the wash is turned.
The wash rises along the warm areas of the cylinders and sinks back along the cooler areas.
After some 30 minutes it gets interesting: Above the heating cylinders the liquid starts to boil, and light substances (predominantly flavour -carrying esters) rise into the air above the liquid level.

The constant supply of gaseous substances leads to a slight overpressure in the still, and the gases rise into the neck of the still. But they don’t get far. The wall of the still is still too cold, and the evaporated substances condense at the wall. As time goes by more and more droplets accumulate at the wall and form bigger drops that flow back into the pot. Macallan – Inspection Window of a Wash Still That’s why wash stills have small windows in the neck, through which the bubbling wash can be watched. For if the boiling temperature of the wash is too high, liquid can get into the condenser via the lyne arm,

This wouldn’t be so bad if the wash didn’t contain solid parts of the barley grains, which clog the thin pipes of the condensers. Therefore the stillman must be watchful. Distilleries that don’t have the time for watching the boiling put soap into the wash, which destroys the surface tension of the wash and prevents it from boiling over.

Since the soap liquefies at 122-140°F (50-60°C) and only boils at temperatures far exceeding 212°F (100°C), no soap molecules can get into the distillate. The first distillation in the wash stills takes approximately 4 to 7 hours. The wash still has a temperature of approximately 173°F (78°C), the evaporation point of ethanol. Mannochmore Low Wines & Spirit Receiver However, the low wines receiver doesn’t contain only alcohol but also all substances with a lower boiling point than alcohol, as well as some substances with a higher boiling point. They have been torn out of the molecule groups by the bubbling liquid and have been pulled into the low wines receiver together with the light alcohol molecules.

Among these molecules is also plenty of water, which forms an azeotrope with the alcohol. After the first distillation the low wines typically have an alcohol content of 20% to 25%. After distillation the pot ale (also called spent wash ) remains in the wash still, It has a residual alcohol content of approximately 1%.

However, not only alcohol but also valuable proteins and minerals from the barley grains remain in the pot ale, That’s why after emptying the still the pot ale is concentrated through evaporation and sold as high-quality animal feed. Glenfarclas – Concentration System for Pot Ale Since the large pot stills only have a wall thickness of a few millimetres (ca.3/16″) they are very sensitive to overpressure and negative pressure. The worst-case scenario is therefore the collapse of a still caused by negative pressure.

When the distillation has been stopped, the pot ale is drained and the pot still cools down, negative pressure is created inside. If it becomes too high the pot still implodes with a loud bang. Since this happened more than once in the past, every pot still now has an automated pressure relief valve that keeps the pressure balance with the environment.

For filling and draining the stills, there’s another vent valve, which is usually operated simultaneously with the pumps. Fettercairn – Automated Pressure Relief Valve (Top) and Manual Vent Valve (Bottom) The table below shows the distillation balance of a wash still distillation,

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	Wash	Low Wines	Spent Wash
Liter/gallon(US) Total	30.000/7925	11.212/2960	18.748/4952
Vol. % alkocol	10%	25%	1%
Liter/gallon(US) alkocol	3.000/793	2.813/743	187/49

The figures in the distillation balance show that the reduction of the water volume from the wash to the low wines significantly reduces the second distillation volume for the spirit still, In summary, the sole purpose of the first distillation is to reduce the liquid volume by 1/3 and to remove the solid parts of the grains that are still in the wash, Royal Lochnagar – Spirit Still The second distillation in the smaller spirit stills is carried out much more carefully and slowly. It typically takes approximately 8 hours. Since this takes double as long as the first distillation, often the result of two wash still distillations is collected in the low wines receiver and filled into the spirit still as a whole. Dallas Dhu – Pot Ale Receiver (Spent Wash Tank) & Heat Exchanger As described in the first part of this article, the spirit still has the bigger influence on the taste of the new make spirit, The second distillation is carried out much more carefully so the alcohol and the flavour substances can be separated more effectively from the water, Functional Chart of a Pot Still Distillery In the past, the so-called Worm Tubs were used to cool the spirit after distillation in the Pot Still, A Worm Tub is constructed as follows: The Lyne arm of the still is simply continued as a conduit and placed in the form of a spiral in a tub filled with cooling water,

In this way the Spirit cools down while it is passed on. However, this is a rather complex process that requires a lot of maintenance. For this reason, many distilleries no longer use this type of cooling, but prefer the so-called ‘shell and tube condensers’. These modern heat exchangers are much more space-saving and easier to handle.

In some distilleries you can still find the traditional worm tubs, for example at Lagavulin on Islay or Balmenach in the Highlands. Many do not want to do without their worm tubs despite the higher maintenance costs, as this type of cooling can also have a positive effect on the character of the distillery character,

Due to the increased copper contact and the temperature control of the water in the tub, the result is a heavier and spicier new make spirit,
Since the aggressive foreshots are unwanted in the new make spirit, they are redirected in the spirit safe and not led into the spirit receiver,
The functional chart from above is shown again to illustrate the function of the spirit safe,

This spirit safe has a long history and a special function. Under British law all pot stills and pipework must be padlocked. So the stillman cannot taste the spirit. Then how is he supposed to know when the foreshots have run through and the desired middle cut has started? Glenfarclas – Spirit Safe with Hydrometers and Thermometers The first thing experience teaches a stillman is the time needed to heat the still until the middle cut appears. Since thousands of gallons/litres must be heated to more than 158°F (70°C), it takes some time until the first spirit runs through the spirit safe,

Then the foreshots run for about 20 minutes. In order to determine the right moment to switch the spirit flow so the middle cut can be collected, the spirit safe contains several glass boxes in which the spirit can be collected and instruments start to swim. If you measure the density of the spirit with a hydrometer you can determine its alcohol content with a chart.

While the foreshots are running, the alcohol content of the spirit sinks from approximately 85% to 75%. Glenfarclas – Spirit Safe with Switches for the Spirit Flow Yet this is not the only instrument that must be monitored. The density of the liquid depends heavily on its temperature. So the temperature is also measured in order to rectify the density. With density and temperature measured, the stillman can then read the alcohol content off a chart hanging next to the spirit safe.

What happens to the foreshots ? They aren’t poured away but led back into the low wines receiver. However, the foreshots aren’t enriched by this constant reflux, This is where the real magic of distillation happens. The aggressive foreshots are transformed into enjoyable aromatic substances through catalytic reactions with the copper of the spirit still.

This is a continuous process, and the quantity of foreshots remains constant in the spirit still, After the foreshots have reached the low wines receiver, the stillman changes the flow direction in the spirit safe and leads the middle cut into the spirit receiver, Aberfeldy – Spirit Receiver and Filling of Casks The distillation of the middle cut must be carried out slowly and carefully. If the spirit still is heated too much, the reflux of condensing substances with a higher boiling point at the wall of the still is prevented.

Therefore fusel oils can pass the lyne arm and get into the spirit receiver, While the middle cut is being collected, which takes approximately three hours, the alcohol content falls from 75% to 60%. But even after switching at 60% abv, the distillation continues. The fusel oils ( faints ) that appear now are led back into the low wines receiver where they are again catalytically transformed by the copper during the next distillation run.

The distillation of the faints goes on for a long time and is only halted when a residual alcohol content of 1% is reached so no valuable alcohol is lost with the liquid remaining in the spirit still (called spent lees). You don’t often get the chance to view a low wines receiver from the inside.

It contains a milky grey-white mix of alcohol and water on which the thin, oily layer of faints swims.
The distillation process is now complete.
The distillation balance for the second distillation in the chart below shows the emerging quantity of new make spirit,
In our example of 7925 gal. us.
30.000 L) of wash with 10% abv, the resulting quantity of 734 gal.

us. (2.780 litres) of alcohol means a yield of 92.6%.

	Low Wines	raw Whisky	Spent Lees	Faints & Foreshots
Liter/gallons total	11.252/2972	4.117/1088	3.376/892	3.759/993
Vol. % alcohol	25%	67,5%	1%
Liter/gallons Alcohol	2.813/743	2.279/602	34/9

Particularly interesting in the balance are the faints and foreshots that are led back for redistillation. They increase the amount of liquid of the low wines as well as their alcohol content, Since they are a transit item appearing in every new distillation, they are neglected in the balance.

This initially confusing fact is the reason why the alcohol content of the low wines is alternately stated between 20% and 27% in technical publications or when mentioned in a distillery, For the balance in our example we simply assumed an average content of 25% in the first distillation run and 67.5% in the second run.

In our example the spent lees amount to 30% of the volume of the first distillate. This is, like all the figures in the balances, just an educated guess. If you want to know more about the production of pot stills follow this link, Once the distillation is completed, the raw distillate is obtained.

This distillate is turned into Whisky (or Whiskey ) by being matured in casks for at least three years (USA: two years). Just as the minimum maturation period differs in Great Britain and the USA, so does the name for the raw distillate. In Scotland and co it is called ‘ New Make Spirit ‘. In the USA the term ‘ White Dog ‘ has become established.

It is not known where the term comes from, but it was probably used by the first American settlers. ‘White’ certainly because the spirit does not take on a brown colour without cask maturation, Where the ‘dog’ comes from is not known. Some American distilleries even sell their ‘ White Dog ‘ without cask maturation or an ageing period for only a few days or weeks.

These products are called, for example, ‘White Whiskey ‘, ‘White Lightning’ or ‘Legal Moonshine’.
The term ‘moonshine’ contains something quite illegal per se.
Moonshining is the illegal, domestic production and smuggling of spirits.
As this used to take place mostly at night under the ‘moonlight’, the resulting distillate is called Moonshine.

In Europe it is not allowed to sell a spirit under the name ‘ Whisky ‘ unless it has been stored in casks for at least three years. But in the USA, many distilleries have seen a chance in selling their ‘ White Dog ‘ to make up for the revenue shortfall until they can sell the first Whiskey, which has matured for years.

Can you run moonshine too slow?

Correct Rate of flow from Condenser – Pot / Thumper If you have a you tube video of your still, fermentation, screw ups, or anything distilling related you think is worth sharing, post it here. If your adverse to posting directly, contact the team, and you can post via the CCSC channel to ensure you anonymity.

Moderator: Posts: Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:43 am by » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:28 pm Hello folks – as a novice one of the things that I am still scratching my head with is the correct rate of flow I should be aiming for from my pot still (with thumper) for a SPIRIT run. Would some of the the pot/thumper gurus out there put up a video of the rate of flow that novices should be aiming for please? This would be a major help as the descriptions of the rate of flow is not very definitive – despite best attempts by well wishing people.

Thanks in advance. Site Supporter Posts: Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:50 pm by » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:06 pm You might get some varied / complicated answers on this one. There are many variables which may make what you feel is the perfect take off rate different to what any other single person here does.

The volume of wash you running, the design of your still, volume/contents of the thumper, the contents of your still (% abv) and the type of mash/wash even.
I’ve not looked at your posts so I don’t know the design of your pot still, but things like size, shape, head space in the boiler, percentage of copper in the vapour path may be things to consider? Above all things taste is what matters, you run too slow and it will take forever (and might still taste bad) you run too fast and you will probably smear all the fractions together.

Common advice seems to drift around a drip a second for foreshots. steady drip for heads, pencil lead stream for hearts then collect tails as fast as your comfortable with down to a point that you feel you can be bothered with before you feel that your wasting energy/time to go further.

I personally run around 300ml every 8 – 10 minutes for hearts in a spirit run. More like 10 minutes in pot still mode and closer to 8 when running the torpedo under the pot in a 50L keg filled to around 30L, I feel I get great separation at this speed and can detect fractions easily when tasting later before ageing.

I have no experience with thumpers, so my thoughts might not be worth much to you. Hope it makes some sense in any case. Stuck Not all those who wander are lost, Site Admin Posts: Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:23 am Location: Central Victoria, Down under.

Contact: by » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:42 am There are a few pot stillers here.
Hopefully one of them can post a vid for you.
Pencil led stream is widely considered the norm.
Have a nice day.
Something fermenting, something ready to run, something ageing.and you’ll never run out Site Supporter Posts: Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:21 am Location: In the Borders, UK by » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:01 am In this context a thumper will tighten up the cuts a bit – make the transitions between them a bit faster.

It will also increase the average ABV of each phase of the run a bit. You can probably expect to re-run the distillation a few times until you get used to it. It won’t hurt. After the run just check your samples and if you aren’t happy you just put them all back in the still and do it again.

For the first run I probably wouldn’t collect tails at all, as I would expect that I might need to do it again. Slowly drip by drip should give reasonable foreshots compression, then switch to a stream about the size of a pencil leads. Once you have collected in samples, check one from the middle of the Hearts phase.

If that centre hearts jar isn’t up to quality, then the power level used during the Hearts was wrong. That is typical at first. Heads (and ALL the other fractions) are there in the boiler at variable concentrations throughout the run – and you need to run fast enough so that most of the heads get driven off early.

By the time you get into the Hearts, the %age of the heads fraction left should be low enough not to affect the taste.
Run too slow and the %age of heads fraction left in the boiler (at that moment in time) is higher, and the taste carries over into the Hearts.
Once you get to a power setting that gives a reasonable centre hearts jar, then you can tweak it to try and increase the width of the Hearts phase.

This old topic on HD is quite a good description. On a pot still you never get full definition between the fractions. Power management gets you to a point where the proportions of the various fractions in the Hearts phase are such that you get an acceptable product – without waiting 15 years for things to balance out by evaporation.

Site Supporter Posts: Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:21 am Location: In the Borders, UK by » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:08 am And keep your boiler charge on the pot still lower than 30%.
I usually do strip runs then dilute my low wines to 27%.
Any higher on the pot still and the solubility of the fractions in ethanol, just makes the cuts more difficult.

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Posts: Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:43 am by » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:23 am Gents – I bow to your greater knowledge and experience, and thanks for the information, however if one of the pot / thumper people put up some video with a commentary as to what rig they were using and what stage the run was at etc (in light of the above posts) at least it would be something for novices to work off.

Posts: Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:42 pm Location: Éire by » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:05 pm Just look at Scarecrows Rye run video again and then look at my video, thereabouts is good.
Posts: Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:40 am Location: Near Coffs Harbour by » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:56 pm I see your desire for a video Jimy Whereas a normal still puts out a nice constant drip or dribble, a thumper output is quite the splatered splurty thingy which is rather hard to define,

Will do my best to video it even if the results mean jack, Collection in a measuring cylinder for a minuate then multiplying by 60 to get a mls per hour is a more accurate way to assess your takeoff rate, So far I’m still pissing in the wind with it,

Site Supporter Posts: Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:34 am Location: On my laptop, next to the Great Sandy Straits by » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:36 pm I’ve run a basic potstill for a long time and I have never known/read this before now. I was always under the impression that the slower you go on a spirit run, the better the separation of fractions.

I would be very interested to find out more in this regard too. If you would be so kind as to provide a URL link or even more detailed specifics, it would be much appreciated. “Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood.” H.L.

Mencken Site Supporter Posts: Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:21 am Location: In the Borders, UK by » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:58 am Frank wrote: You are not wrong Frank, BUT you need to put it in context. Yes if you run slowly the natural cooling in the vapour path will initially result in some reflux. Also running at low power does result in less ethanol being evaporated with the heads at that moment in time.

Instinctively you understand this as better separation, but you also need to think about long term effects. On a pot still there is minimal re-processing – in effect what comes out of the boiler makes its way out the product condenser. This is in contrast to packed and plated columns where more of what comes out of the boiler, ends up back in it again.

The composition of the vapour leaving the boiler is directly related to the composition of the liquid in the boiler AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME.
Ok it is a simplification but it is good enough.
So if your boiler charge is 10A + 50B + 20C then so is your vapour.
Or 1:5:2 At a later moment in time because they evaporate at different rates to each other, you might have 5A + 40B + 19C, or 1:8:3.8 (not realistic but just an example) So the proportions in the boiler change ratios constantly, based on what is left behind in the boiler.

You try to find a power level that preferentially depletes the heads, whilst still leaving enough hearts left in the boiler to collect. Go to slow and there is always enough heads left in the boiler for you to taste in the product. Go too fast and you force the tails through into the hearts.

At the end of the run the boiler may contain 0.5A + 5B + 1C but because all the components are soluble in water (and in each other) there is always a bit of each left that is not worth recovering.
Power management on the pot still in reality is just trying to manipulate what is left in the boiler in our favour.

Posts: Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:51 pm Location: Brisbane by » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:09 am 10A + 50B + 20C then so is your vapour. Or 1:5:2 Does A, B and C have a value? for example if A=2 then 10A is 20? or are they representing something like A=ethyl acetate or A=heads? Site Supporter Posts: Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:21 am Location: In the Borders, UK by » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:08 pm It is just an example.

As the volatile components in the boiler leave as vapour, the boiling point of what remains changes. This boiling point in turn changes the volatility of each component, so the evaporation rate of each component changes. The solubility of each component also changes during the run. Bottom line though is that each sample of product contains some of each volatile component that was in the boiler when it was produced.

The pot still NEVER produces completely separated volatile components – it isn’t possible. (It doesn’t even do that on a column. The BOILER always produces a mixture, but the column selectively passes some to product, and returns the rest back to the boiler.) This is an exaggerated visual illustration.

Taken from the typical Cognac still, with different power levels used during each phase of the run. Pot output.png If you do the entire run at too low a power input, the heads persist all the way through the run. Use a higher power and you produce heads at a faster rate. This means they are depleted from the boiler, so what is left in it produces vapour containing a much smaller proportion of heads.

Enough to be acceptable. Relative evaporation rates is the point. When you air the product later, the heads evaporate but so does the ethanol. The heads evaporate faster though (you hope) dependent on storage conditions. You can manipulate evaporation rates by how much power you put in.

You can’t do it selectively – but you can swing it into your favour. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. Posts: Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:18 pm Location: In the Heart of the Caldera by » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:57 pm Nicely explained Myles. Thank you. scarecrow My IQ test results came back negative.

Site Supporter Posts: Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:34 am Location: On my laptop, next to the Great Sandy Straits by » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:16 pm Myles wrote:,If you do the entire run at too low a power input, the heads persist all the way through the run.

Use a higher power and you produce heads at a faster rate. This means they are depleted from the boiler, so what is left in it produces vapour containing a much smaller proportion of heads. Enough to be acceptable. @Myles: thank you for your detailed explanation, its much appreciated. OK.if you spirit run a potstill using ‘higher power’ as described, I presume your graph suggests this works for hearts/tails too? I mean, it can be expected that a faster takeoff of hearts is going to leave tails ‘behind’? (apologies in advance, perhaps) “Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood.” H.L.

Mencken Site Supporter Posts: Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:21 am Location: In the Borders, UK by » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:18 pm Unfortunately it is a balancing act as too much power brings the tails on early. Tails is typically the highest power used in the run.

You are just recovering undrinkable ethanol for future reprocessing. You can say that recovering Tails is equivalent to a strip run setting. Higher than you would use for hearts and the heads setting is lower than the hearts. Posts: Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:14 pm by » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:55 pm wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:08 pm It is just an example.

Bottom line though is that each sample of product contains some of each volatile component that was in the boiler when it was produced. The pot still NEVER produces completely separated volatile components – it isn’t possible. You can manipulate evaporation rates by how much power you put in. You can’t do it selectively – but you can swing it into your favour.

Stuck referenced this thread in a thread I created: I don’t want to “smear” the two so I requested that responses to the comment there be posted here. Site Supporter Posts: Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:22 pm Location: Brisvegas by » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:37 pm wrote: I have never known or read this before now either, I have been convinced that running as slow as possible on a spirit run made it so much easier to separate the fractions and avoid smearing heads into hearts.

@myles you are certainly a wealth of knowledge, I am glad I found this information Never mistake Kindness for Weakness! Posts: Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:14 pm by » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:21 am Just a reminder: What I have found and been reminded by my mates in this hobby is it is all about personal choices in search of what pleases you.

As a neophyte – up from a noob – I read “best practices” of others and attempt & adapt to what I want to achieve. There are an infinite number of variables even as something you would think is basic as this. Obviously there are different types of “pot stills” including material, size, and heat source.

Variables as to mash/wash as well.
So the point is I am sure there are several wrong ways to do this, and a lot more RIGHT ways to do it.
Here’s to a “healthy” discussion of choices.
Posts: Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:37 pm Location: Brissy by » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:45 am I am enjoying reading and re-reading the pot still advice and it brings me back to a conversation with yummy a while back about boiler size and take-off speed.

If the boiler is 4x the size of a typical keg boiler, the riser is also 4x typical 2in and the wash is comparable then it makes sense that heat input would be 4x and take-off therefore 4x that of a typical 2in and be producing a comparable product. I’m not yet able to test this theory but the the wheels are turning.

My best childhood memory is falling asleep on the couch and waking up in bed.
I miss teleporting it never happens any more Posts: Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:57 pm Location: Deep space.
By » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:08 pm 1.6lph is good Marge, don’t discourage the boy! Weaseling out of things is important to learn.

It’s what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel. Posts: Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:37 pm Location: Brissy by » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:33 pm Ok so for those who are pondering take off speed relative to boil charge. I can confirm that by in creasing boiler size 4x 50L to 200L you can in fact take off at 4x the speed for the same result.

I’m now wondering what difference does it make dropping the boiler charge abv from 30% down to 15%. Does anyone have any first hand experience? My best childhood memory is falling asleep on the couch and waking up in bed. I miss teleporting it never happens any more Site Supporter Posts: Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:02 pm by » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:24 pm Im grasping at straws here @ Bent cracker but I reakon you would need to halve speed.

I know I do on my bubbler when I do an all grain as apposed to sugarhead whiskey, or It is quite possible to fog my bottom sight glass(Push tails in) straight off heads. Then when I back it right off again the glass clears and run proceeded as normal I prob drop power by 1/3-1/2.

How do you know when to stop the distillation?

Simple Distillation Summary – Figure 5.29: Simple distillation apparatus.

Table 5.6: Procedural summary of simple distillation.

Assembly tips Fill the distilling flask with sample 1/3-1/2 full. Always use an extension clamp on the distilling flask. Add a few boiling stones or stir bar to flask. Position the thermometer bulb just below the arm of the three-way adapter, where vapors turn toward the condenser.

Wet condenser hoses with water before attaching. Connect the condenser hoses such that water flow uphill: bring water from the faucet into the lower arm, and drain out the upper arm. Be sure all of the connections are secure (especially between the distilling flask and 3-way adapter: potential of fire!)

Begin distillation Turn on the condenser water. Apply the heat source to the distilling flask. Collect distillate at a rate of 1 drop per second, Record the temperature where liquid is actively distilling and thermometer bulb is immersed. Record the pressure.

Cease distillation Stop the distillation when the temperature changes dramatically or if the distilling flask is nearly empty (never distill to dryness!) Lower and remove the heat source, but keep water circulating until the flask is just warm to the touch.

How long does a distilling run take?

You might be interested: What Kind Of Alcohol Is Goldschlager?

But the Egyptians used distillation only for producing perfume.
Only in the middle ages Celtic monks discovered the production of Whisky – the water of life,
Through alcoholic fermentation the wash ( beer ) contains approximately 8% to 10% alcohol (ethanol = ethyl alcohol).
The alcoholic strength is determined by the yeast used and the duration of the fermentation,

30,000 L) are most common.
When hot steam is led into the heating cylinders, the wash still starts to heat the wash,
Through the heat movement (convection) inside the still the wash is turned.
The wash rises along the warm areas of the cylinders and sinks back along the cooler areas.
After some 30 minutes it gets interesting: Above the heating cylinders the liquid starts to boil, and light substances (predominantly flavour -carrying esters) rise into the air above the liquid level.

This wouldn’t be so bad if the wash didn’t contain solid parts of the barley grains, which clog the thin pipes of the condensers.
Therefore the stillman must be watchful.
Distilleries that don’t have the time for watching the boiling put soap into the wash, which destroys the surface tension of the wash and prevents it from boiling over.

Among these molecules is also plenty of water, which forms an azeotrope with the alcohol.
After the first distillation the low wines typically have an alcohol content of 20% to 25%.
After distillation the pot ale (also called spent wash ) remains in the wash still,
It has a residual alcohol content of approximately 1%.

When the distillation has been stopped, the pot ale is drained and the pot still cools down, negative pressure is created inside.
If it becomes too high the pot still implodes with a loud bang.
Since this happened more than once in the past, every pot still now has an automated pressure relief valve that keeps the pressure balance with the environment.

	Wash	Low Wines	Spent Wash
Liter/gallon(US) Total	30.000/7925	11.212/2960	18.748/4952
Vol. % alkocol	10%	25%	1%
Liter/gallon(US) alkocol	3.000/793	2.813/743	187/49

In this way the Spirit cools down while it is passed on. However, this is a rather complex process that requires a lot of maintenance. For this reason, many distilleries no longer use this type of cooling, but prefer the so-called ‘shell and tube condensers’. These modern heat exchangers are much more space-saving and easier to handle.

Due to the increased copper contact and the temperature control of the water in the tub, the result is a heavier and spicier new make spirit,
Since the aggressive foreshots are unwanted in the new make spirit, they are redirected in the spirit safe and not led into the spirit receiver,
The functional chart from above is shown again to illustrate the function of the spirit safe,

Then the foreshots run for about 20 minutes. In order to determine the right moment to switch the spirit flow so the middle cut can be collected, the spirit safe contains several glass boxes in which the spirit can be collected and instruments start to swim. If you measure the density of the spirit with a hydrometer you can determine its alcohol content with a chart.

What happens to the foreshots ? They aren’t poured away but led back into the low wines receiver. However, the foreshots aren’t enriched by this constant reflux, This is where the real magic of distillation happens. The aggressive foreshots are transformed into enjoyable aromatic substances through catalytic reactions with the copper of the spirit still.

Therefore fusel oils can pass the lyne arm and get into the spirit receiver, While the middle cut is being collected, which takes approximately three hours, the alcohol content falls from 75% to 60%. But even after switching at 60% abv, the distillation continues. The fusel oils ( faints ) that appear now are led back into the low wines receiver where they are again catalytically transformed by the copper during the next distillation run.

It contains a milky grey-white mix of alcohol and water on which the thin, oily layer of faints swims.
The distillation process is now complete.
The distillation balance for the second distillation in the chart below shows the emerging quantity of new make spirit,
In our example of 7925 gal. us.
30.000 L) of wash with 10% abv, the resulting quantity of 734 gal.

us. (2.780 litres) of alcohol means a yield of 92.6%.

	Low Wines	raw Whisky	Spent Lees	Faints & Foreshots
Liter/gallons total	11.252/2972	4.117/1088	3.376/892	3.759/993
Vol. % alcohol	25%	67,5%	1%
Liter/gallons Alcohol	2.813/743	2.279/602	34/9

This initially confusing fact is the reason why the alcohol content of the low wines is alternately stated between 20% and 27% in technical publications or when mentioned in a distillery,
For the balance in our example we simply assumed an average content of 25% in the first distillation run and 67.5% in the second run.

This distillate is turned into Whisky (or Whiskey ) by being matured in casks for at least three years (USA: two years). Just as the minimum maturation period differs in Great Britain and the USA, so does the name for the raw distillate. In Scotland and co it is called ‘ New Make Spirit ‘. In the USA the term ‘ White Dog ‘ has become established.

These products are called, for example, ‘White Whiskey ‘, ‘White Lightning’ or ‘Legal Moonshine’. The term ‘moonshine’ contains something quite illegal per se. Moonshining is the illegal, domestic production and smuggling of spirits. As this used to take place mostly at night under the ‘moonlight’, the resulting distillate is called Moonshine.

How do you know when to stop distillation chemistry?

Laboratory Distillation Setup – The apparatus used for a simple laboratory batch distillation is shown here. The purpose of the thermometer is to follow the progress of the distillation; as a rough rule of thumb, the distillation should be stopped when the temperature rises to about half-way between the boiling points of the two pure liquids, which should be at least 20-30 C° apart (if they are closer, then fractional distillation, described below, becomes necessary). Figure \(\PageIndex \): Fractional distillation setup. An Erlenmeyer flask is used as a receiving flask. Here the distillation head and fractionating column are combined in one piece. from Wikipedia Condensers are available in a number of types. The simple Liebig condenser shown above is the cheapest and therefore most commonly used in student laboratories.

At what proof should I stop distilling?

I would stop distilling at a point where the total of what you have collected ( after discarding the heads, of course), is about 60% ABV. Anything after this will be full of fusels, real hangover-inducing stuff. Then I’d cut it with water to a drinkable strength. I cut mine to 50% ABV; that’s 100 proof in the USA.